rushthatspeaks: (Default)
[personal profile] rushthatspeaks
I'd vaguely heard of Donald Westlake's Dortmunder novels on several occasions, as they would I think qualify for a place on a list of non-science-fiction-fantasy things that people in sff fandom tend to enjoy. [personal profile] kate_nepveu was kind enough to suggest a starting point, in What's The Worst That Could Happen?, which also happened to be the only one the library had.

Dortmunder is a professional burglar, and the tone of the series is caper/suspense/humor. Not a genre I've read widely in, so I'm not in much position to say whether this book, or Westlake in general, fit into or are subverting any common tropes.

Which means-- I'm sorry, Westlake fans-- that I disliked this book entirely on its own account.

It's not a bad book. In fact, it's very well done. The language is inventive and interesting, the plot ticks along correctly, and a large cast are kept mostly distinctive except at the climax, where I completely lost track of the logistics, although it didn't really matter. The characters are mostly a fun cross between people one might actually run into and the noir stereotype of such characters; it's as though the camera has a filter on it which makes everybody look a little bit Damon Runyon. I both believed in and was invested in a romance between two of the cast.

The problems I had were two-fold and related: firstly, I could tell that the book was meant to be funny, but I couldn't actually figure out how or why it might be funny. Nothing in it struck me as remotely humorous, except one paragraph about a spurious Broadway musical. Secondly, and probably the reason for firstly: not only did I find Dortmunder, the protagonist, the most boring person in the book, I also found him killingly depressing and kept wishing he would go the hell away. Write a book about Andy Kelp, the second lead, and I'm right there with you (is there one?), but Dortmunder, oh my god, no.

He's a professional thief, and he's very competent at it, but he seems to consider nothing else in the world (except possibly his girlfriend) worth his time, attention, or effort. He hates technology, does not register historical references, resents ninety percent of the population of the planet, does not seem interested in travel except as a means to an end, and, we are told, when he has enough cash to survive literally stays home and does nothing all day. He does not appear to enjoy thievery-- it's his skill set. He looks down on people who are interested in things he does not enjoy, which as far as I could tell from this book is everything except alcohol. We know from the book's description of thieving as a business that it is hard and dangerous work, and that he gets ten percent of the value of the things he takes, if that. When he does have money, he doesn't seem to enjoy that either. The only motivation we get out of him in this book is an annoyed and furious desire for revenge. Which, to be fair, does drive the plot.

It is rather distracting in a book that is set up as a light caper and trying to be funny to be continuously wondering a) whether the protagonist is actually secretly suicidally depressed and b) if not, why not, because looking at his life and behavior and general attitude it seems only the logical reaction. I never figured out why he bothers to get out of bed in the morning. As far as I can tell, even he would tell you that there is no redeeming value in his life or himself.

The thing is, I am fine reading a book about a protagonist of that sort, except that I'm not sure this book knew it had one. I suspect Dormunder of being modeled on the classic noir P.I., only de-angstified somewhat and from the other side of the law. He certainly doesn't share the DNA of Arsène Lupin. The thing is, the life circumstances of a noir P.I. make it obvious why he is so angst-ridden, but Dortmunder's do not make it clear why he is not happy. (If he is happy, I would have liked that mentioned. People actually go around observing things like 'an attitude of hangdog despair shrouds him'.) This gap in being able to understand what the hell is going on with him leaves him pretty much a total cipher.

And it breaks the book for me. It doesn't work as light comedy. It doesn't work as black comedy, either, because everything that isn't Dortmunder isn't quite cynical enough. The book separates into the protagonist and everything else, and enjoying the rest okay doesn't make up for the split.

It could just be me. I mean, I also find Dashiell Hammett's The Thin Man one of the most depressing novels ever written; I couldn't figure out why anybody bothered getting out of bed in the morning in that one, but a lot of people insist that it is charming and witty, which it is, if you can duck the gaping existential void at its heart. This book wasn't like that, just at war with itself.

It could also be that Dortmunder is explained somewhere else in the series sufficiently to make this book work, but I didn't like this enough to want to try. Consensus seems to be that this one is Westlake's best, which does not make the others an appealing prospect, really.

Date: 2010-08-31 02:52 am (UTC)
kate_nepveu: sleeping cat carved in brown wood (Default)
From: [personal profile] kate_nepveu
Dortmunder came about when Westlake had an idea for a Parker book that Parker refused to do as undignified, Parker being a one-name-only entirely ruthless and pragmatic career criminal. If that helps. But Dortmunder doesn't really have backstory in any meaningful sense; he's just a guy "on whom the sun shone only when he needed darkness", knows it, and is mostly resigned to it. Psychological depth just is not the ground the series is working. Though I do think Dortmunder enjoys more than you think he does, which is probably a matter of our reading the tone differently.

And there's no Kelp-only book.

Sorry that you didn't enjoy it.

Date: 2010-08-30 07:40 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sartorias.livejournal.com
It must be one of those taste things, or the voice one hears them in, or something. While I agree about Hammett, I love this book, and in fact, it's on my comfort read shelf--I even wrote a fic about Dortmunder--yet every word you say is true. Except about it not being funny. I can't explain why it cracks me up, it just does.

Date: 2010-08-31 04:07 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rushthatspeaks.livejournal.com
I can't explain why it doesn't crack me up, either. It felt as though it ought to.

Date: 2010-08-30 07:57 pm (UTC)
pameladean: (Default)
From: [personal profile] pameladean
I've read only one Westlake -- A Likely Story, which is about publishing -- and I love it, but it did not make me want to read any more Westlake. I felt he was walking a very fine line and would probably fall off it in other books. I don't know if this is true, but I felt it very strongly.

P.

Date: 2010-08-31 12:43 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] papersky.livejournal.com
He does occasionally fall off it, but he stays on it far more often than seems possible.

Do not read The Hook. [livejournal.com profile] rushthatspeaks, don't you read it either.

Date: 2010-08-30 07:59 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rachelmanija.livejournal.com
Humor is so subjective! I find Westlake funny because the prose style makes me laugh. Ans also the absurd intricacy of the plots, like dominoes carefully lined up for a small push. But if you don't like this one you will certainly not like any of his others.

Date: 2010-08-30 08:32 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] nancylebov.livejournal.com
To my mind, none of the later Dortmunder books were nearly as good as The Hot Rock, which was the first. If you're willing to give him one more chance, try checking out the idea when it was fresh.

Date: 2010-08-30 08:39 pm (UTC)
sovay: (Morell: quizzical)
From: [personal profile] sovay
Write a book about Andy Kelp, the second lead, and I'm right there with you (is there one?), but Dortmunder, oh my god, no.

I've never read anything by Westlake. Tell me about Andy Kelp.

Date: 2010-08-31 03:57 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rushthatspeaks.livejournal.com
The one whose DNA is actually from Arsène Lupin. Also the one with the sense of humor and history. You'd like him. One of those people who doesn't use keys.

Date: 2010-08-30 09:26 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] shalanna.livejournal.com
You know what you MIGHT like, if you don't like the Dortmunder books (which I think might be an acquired taste--he's the Marvin robot from "Hitchhiker's Guide" or Eeyore, but darker--he started out a bit nicer in THE HOT ROCK, which was nicely filmed with Robert Redford around 1970), you could read one of my faves, TRUST ME ON THIS. Yes, it is fey and twee and self-indulgent as is all Westlake, but it is hilarious and it parodies the vulgar "National Enquirer" press. The heroine here, Sara, is very optimistic and a go-getter, nothing like John Dortmunder and his crew. You either love it or you don't get it, but if you love it, you'll love it. (You'll know after the first chapter, at most.) I'm sure it's in print, or it's out there available from one of the used book stores.

TWO MUCH is cute, although it really strains credulity in many ways. It's a "Twin Dilemma" sort of riff. They made it into a film with that cute Antonio Banderas, but I like the book better for all its asides and sillinesses.

Keep away from Westlake's real bummers like THE AXE--in which he lets the bad guy win without ANY consequences or upbraiding, and gives a really dark vibe about people who get away with terrible things. I know it's a standalone and that he was told to do more thrillers like that one, but it was a departure from his charm and elegance. There are a couple like that one I'd say to avoid. (They're the only Westlakes that I turned in to the hospital reading room and the used book store. All others are on my keeper shelf.) You probably don't want to read his Richard Stark-pseudoed hardboileds, either.

Sartorias and I may just be on his frequency. Or it's (in my case) possibly because I started reading Westlake around age eleven or so, shortly after I'd finished the Heinlein juveniles and DOOR INTO SUMMER (all the "adult" books were too much for me for a few years yet) and all of Ray Bradbury. I think we'd seen the film of THE HOT ROCK and that kicked things off. Often you key in to the style of writers you read around that age . . . and I guess I did. It sticks with you.

Date: 2010-08-31 03:58 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rushthatspeaks.livejournal.com
I may well look into the National Enquirer one at some point, and thank you.

I also may actually try the pseudo-hardboileds, because if the author knows the book is dark it helps rather.

Date: 2010-08-31 11:01 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] nancylebov.livejournal.com
I liked Westlake's Cops and Robbers a lot-- it's not a comic novel (iirc) and it's not bleak either.

Date: 2010-08-30 09:57 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] leahbobet.livejournal.com
Huh -- see, that's what I love about The Thin Man, that exactly: the way it starts off light and charming and gay, and then the effort to preserve that lightness and charm gets near-hysterical, and the less Nick drinks, the less funny things get until they're really not funny at all. And you realize they never actually were.

That? Is some serious business social commentary there. And Hammett just does the gradual craft shadings so well.

Date: 2010-08-31 03:59 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rushthatspeaks.livejournal.com
Oh yeah, I'm not saying The Thin Man isn't brilliant-- it is, and I also very much admire the first movie. It's just there are a lot of people who seem to think that it is not depressing.

Date: 2010-08-31 05:19 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] leahbobet.livejournal.com
Oh, oh. I see what you mean. No, it's pretty grim.

Date: 2010-08-31 01:28 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] foleyartist1.livejournal.com
It's just there are a lot of people who seem to think that it is not depressing.

O_O

Wait, what? How could anybody miss the yawning chasm of darkness in that book? I loved it too, but it would never have occurred to me that it was light and happy...

Date: 2010-08-31 02:03 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jinian.livejournal.com
Thank you gods! Someone else who hates this book! I also don't find it funny in the slightest and couldn't even get to the halfway mark. I admire your fortitude in finishing.

(Also happy birthday, which I did not say before.)

Date: 2010-08-31 04:02 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rushthatspeaks.livejournal.com
It was quite a good birthday. Thank you!

It was interesting reading this, because I would in fact ordinarily have put it down after two chapters, but I didn't want to start something else because I had a limited amount of time I wanted to read today and also I don't have that many library books. So it's a book I wouldn't have finished if I weren't blogging it. But if I'd stopped, I'd've missed the romance, which was actively enjoyable, and I wouldn't have had enough material to really analyze what I didn't like about it.

I need to figure out how much I'd have to hate a book to actually stop reading it, this year. I hope it never really comes up.

Date: 2010-08-31 02:53 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] erinlin.livejournal.com
I got that effect when I read "Water Music" by T. C. Boyle. The introduction kept going on about how funny it was, but I found the book downright grim.

Incidentally, I am from rachelmanija's journal and I'm interested in your project. Would it be alright if I friend you?
Edited Date: 2010-08-31 02:53 am (UTC)

Date: 2010-08-31 04:06 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rushthatspeaks.livejournal.com
Have not read any T.C. Boyle, but am rather confused by that intro, as I have said author mentally filed under 'litfic/social commentary/therefore probably gratuitously depressing'.

Go ahead and friend! I am totally fine with that. I tend to friend back after I've gotten to know a person a bit.

deleted and reposted for confused grammar, sorry

Date: 2010-09-07 11:10 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] enleve.livejournal.com
I've read a different Dortmunder novel. The impression I got of Dortmunder is that he is an incompetent bumbling fool. He always somehow sets himself up to fail. You're supposed to laugh at him, not laugh with him. I think. If you're trying to actually sympathize with him, and find him realistic, I don't think it works.

I don't think Dortmunder's counterparts are supposed to be Arsene Lupin or the typical noir detective. I think his counterparts are closer to Inspector Clouseau from the Pink Panther movies, or Mr. Bean, or the Three Stooges. If you think of it more like slapstick, does that help?

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